DS III

Regarding the DS3 only. Note that the DS3 is not a class-legal Day Sailer.

Moderator: GreenLake

DS III

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:18 pm

WEBMASTER SIR,
Why do we address the DS III on the DS site? This would lead those that have them to think we "might" have interst in them. Do We? I don't think so! The boat is illegal in our class and has been since we voted on it years ago. Save the space for the legal boats in our class.
Dick Pitman DS-3101

John R. "Dick" Pitman (jrpitman-at-juno.com)
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Postby boone » Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:32 pm

John,

The site you are seeing these messages on is not yet the official DS Association website. It's my personal site. I'm beginning the process of bringing the content together.

The DS3 stuff has been on my personal site for a long time. As you can see there are very few messages concerning the DS3 compared to the rest of the site. I don't think it's a problem. My intent when the sites are merged is to leave those few messages and put a prominent disclaimer that the DS3 is not an official class boat.
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:59 am

I just bought a 1987 Daysailer III. I want to learn as much as possible about it and am also looking for information to help me stop a leak in the bilge. Your site was the only one that I found related to Daysailer III. I certainly hope that you continue to include us even though we are not official!


Sam Foster (mbmaturo-at-comcast.net)
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Postby Guest » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:54 pm

John: Nice, cooperative attitude.

Mike: Thanks for offering a site that believes in helping people.



Bob C (rjcramer-at-optonline.net)
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Postby gary l. britton » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:37 pm

I agree that this website is to help sailors. ThesebBoats are Day Sailers, even though they are not of the same class as eveyone states. ( I have no idea what the difference is, it is still an O'Day Day Sailer) We are all brothers of the "sea" (lake in my case) and I enjoy trying to help other sailors if possible and in return be able to receive help also.

Really enjoy this web site. Lots of information to be had to make daysailing more enjoyable.

Gary
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Postby Peter McMinn » Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:39 am

The beauty of this site is that it enables individual say-so; it's not a moderated advise collumn stifling personal experience. Some of us have been helping people with totally different boats, why not the DS III?

Sam, all asides aside, can you describe the leak you're experiencing? I have a DSI and don't know much about the III's. Where is water collecting and where does it seem to be coming from? I would check for wetness around the centerboard trunk, as this, short of a hull breech, seems to be the most common area for leakage in Daysailers.

Group: Is the centerboard control on a III the same as that of a II (pully operated)?
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Postby Guest » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:47 am

The DS III is still mostly as O'Day intended... a small simple boat designed to get the average person out on the water. Many have gone from Sunfish to 'next step' via a Daysailer. Over emphasis on 'Class' rules and exclusion of non-purists has driven a lot of folks away from sailing and reinforced the elite stereotype some sailors try to hang on to. Please consider leaving the site open to the DS III. Thank you.

pete Tenerowicz (peteten-at-hotmail.com)
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Postby Bob Hunkins » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:43 pm

We're in shoaling waters here. I don't think anyone wants to stop the folks who own DS III's from getting help on things in this forum, but on the other hand, other folks need to realize that the DS III was not accepted by the Day Sailer Association because the O'Day Co. made changes to the design that were outside permissible limits with regard to maintaining the boat as a One-Design racer. The DS II was a departure in some ways, but the class association decided to accept that variant as legal so long as O'Day continued to build the DS I.

There's concern by folks who are racers that someone might wrongly think the DS III is a legal Day Sailer Class boat, just because it has the same sail logo and name.(The rights to the logo and molds are now owned by the Day Sailer Association, bought from the O'Day Co.)

For folks that have absolutely no interest in racing and will never develop an interest, the DS III is probably a good boat, assuming you can get one for a reasonable price. But they should realize if they want to get involved in racing them they will need to get a different boat to race in One-design regattas.

I don't think there's a prevailing elitist mentality among the members of this class association. I've met many of them and I don't see it. What I do see is a feeling of pride and ownership of the class. We want to make sure it is maintained to reasonable one-design standards for racing purposes, as well as maintaining a distinct identity for us.

This is an uphill battle because the name "Day Sailer" was appropriated by other classes for use in the generic sense. There were also some legal cases filed many years ago by O'Day against another boat builder, Sailstar over the design of the boat that O'Day lost. The Sailstar Discoverer is almost identical to The Day Sailer, and has been called a "day sailer". but it's not a "Day Sailer". There's a lot of other examples of how the class association has trouble maintaining an identity for our class, which I won't go into.

I hope folks will cut us a little slack when things like this come us, We're not trying to be mean, we are merely a little sensitive about keeping what is meant by a "Day Sailer" distinct from what others call day sailers.

I hope that those folks who have DS III's can find answers to their questions on this forum and can enjoy their boats. If they ever decide to race, We'll find them some DS I's to trade up to.
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Postby Guest » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:42 am

I am kind of new to this class association, at least compared to a lot of you out there.(I've been in 5 or 6 years now.) I was wondering, what was the discussion like when they voted to exclude the DSIII? Was there ever any discussion about a handicap system? I always think that the more people "in the fold" the better. Personally I think there should be a handicap for the DSII also, it is obvious that the DSII isn't as competitive as the DSI. Other classes have variations and are still considered one design (J-29 for example,) and others are a lot more strict than we are (Laser) so I guess I am wondering how we got to this point.


J.P. Clowes (jpclowes-at-hotmail.com)
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Postby jesse » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:40 pm

I recently acquired an 87 daysailer 3. I owned a daysailer 1 forty years ago and then moved to a 22 O'day for about 30 years. I was amazed at this class legal stuff although I can see that it has some logic. What I don't understand is what exactly rules out the 3. I assume it has been given some new advantage in design but I wondered what it is.
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Postby algonquin » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:00 am

I definitely support having a DS III section on this site even though it isn’t considered a class legal racer. It is still a Day Sailer and is part of the lineage that we all have grown to admire.


I do not know why the DS III is not considered a legal class racer. I don’t believe it has any specific built in advantage over the DS I or II. By what I have read the DS I seems to have performance advantage over the DS II.


Has anyone here had the opportunity to race (informally) a DS III versus a I or II ? Brad
"Feather" DS1 #818
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Postby redtailseven » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:03 am

I own a Daysailer II and I don't care in the slightest about what class its in. Its great fun and I have received fanastic help from the II site. Now I find myself needing to help repair a DS III and I am "shocked, shocked I tell you" by the John R. "Dick" attitude toward other Daysailers. Apparently, he may be a class sailer, but he has no class. Sounds like a crab to me.
Redtail 7 honors the Tuskeegee Airmen
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Postby W W Hala » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:56 pm

I'm new to this site. Have had a DS II since 1976. What is the difference in the DS III that it's not accepted as a Daysailer? If the dimensions and sail area are the same, I don't understand the problem.

I've raced my boat since new and sailed 60 miles up the Bruce Peninsula, Lake Huron (one of the Great Lakes), overnighting with my son many years ago. Also have a Laser and a 28' express cruiser (went over to the Dark Side), but we enjoy the DS the most.
DS6923
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Re: DS III

Postby Cliff » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:07 pm

So did anybody explain what makes a 3 out of class?? Seems many asked the question, and saw reference that the DS Class members actually voted on the issue. Is the hull out of spec?
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Re: DS III

Postby GreenLake » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:56 pm

My best read (and it's all third hand) is that the class association and the builder had a pissing match over the builder's decision to launch a modified DS (the DSIII).

As far as I understand, the hull lines are (somewhat) different and that presents a problem for pure "one-design" racing. I'm not convinced, personally, that it's been established that the DSIII has an actual inherent advantage (whether in any conditions, in average conditions, or in some conditions).

Now, I also understand that there's a widely held presumption that early DS1 models with keel-stepped masts are systematically more competitive than DSII's for example. In principle, that's a no-no for one-design racing as well, but curiously, not an issue.

Finally, I understand that the DSA membership and participation rates aren't exactly trending upwards and that across the sport in general participation in sailboat races of any kind is down compared to earlier decades.

Given these basic understandings, I find it difficult to understand the long-held position of the DSA members; but then, I'm not a competitive racer. I race my boat (DS1) in a no-handicap event where I'm perennially disadvantaged against inherently faster boats, but it gets me on the water, and in some company, which are the main motives for me. On the plus side, I get to skip all worries about having my boat measured, although I have not taken advantage of that freedom in terms of deviating wildly from a class legal setup. (Every once in a while, I'm tempted, though, to rig a large low-wind genoa . . . just to give a certain other boat a run for the money.)

Anyway, because I'm not a competitive racer, I haven't attended any class-sponsored events and its during those that the membership on site gets to vote.

I thought I'd read in the latest DS Quarterly, that they were going to add a race for out of competition (non measured) boats during the Nationals in Eugene, but I can't find my copy. If correct, that would seem to show in interest in growing participation.
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