Flotation on DS2

[jeadstx]

I opened up my inspection ports yesterday for the first time in the four years I've owned my boat. Never got around to it in the past as the bilge drain was working without problem and I had no major leak problems, and the inspection port covers were one really tight (stuck). Yesterday I decided it was time since I planned to add some "pool noodles" to the existing flotation. I put penetrating oil on them and got them unstuck. I got a camera down inside to take pictures in order to inspect the foam flotation. To my suprise, it appears the previous owner removed all of my flotation, except for a little "spray in type foam" up under the seats. Two small chunks were all that was left of the original flotation and flotation particles which showed there once was more. I'm not sure why missing flotation suprised me, the same previous owner sewed the batten sleeves closed on the mainsail without the battens in them.

My question, to those who may know, is approximately how many "pool noodles" do I need to buy to properly fill the void space for good flotation? I'm really glad I didn't know the flotation was missing when I capsized a few weeks ago.

John

[MrPlywood]

Hi John,

I think this question has been answered many times in various threads. Try a search for "noodles" and see what pops up...

Cheers

[seandwyer]

Hey - I know it is about 75 for a DS-1, not sure about a DS-2.

[jeadstx]

I tried searching first. I always do that first. I found some that did a partial to compliment the existing flotation with the "noodles", but didn't find anything (or I missed it) that was for nearly all of the flotation missing. Just trying to get an idea of how many I need to buy. I've found 2 different diameters at a local store. Is one diameter better to use than the other?

John

[jeadstx]

75 for a DS1, thanks for an estimate. I imagine more for a DS2.

John

[whitejw1967]

First, I would love to know what you find out. I am adding positive flotation to my DS II as well. I have added 30 noodles so far and could certainly add more (though I'd have to really cram 'em in).

Second, I'd like to know anyone's feedback on how well and where flotation works.

Yes, I know that this has been discussed before, but I also know from a long search that the answer is moot. Does positive flotation in the bilge areas, for example, help with a capsize or promote going turtle? Seems to me that any flotation is better than too little, even if it is lower in the boat. Also, it would seem that, if the boat goes over on its side, foam flotation in the bilge areas, which would be near centerline, would help more than it being more distributed higher near the gunwales. But, what do I know?

[jeadstx]

I've got about 30 noodles in so far and I'm having trouble fitting more in. The flotation was still in my seats, P.O. aparently couldn't get at that. I was having troble getting the in the bow until I started cutting them in half, then I was able to get them up in there. I'm going to pull back out the as many of the ones in the stern as I can, cut them in half and put them back in. I think when they're long they don't get all the way to the stern. My thinking (though I my be wrong) is that not only does the foam assist in flotation in a capsize, it takes up space to prevent additional water from getting in there. The foam is lighter than water which should make righting easier. The capsize was a good experience, learned a lot, tho I'd prefer not to do it again.

John

[seandwyer]

Did anyone notice in the DS II article in Small Craft Advisor this month that the guy added flotation to his sail - but cut the seats out of the boat and never replaced them?!?!? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a substantial percentage of the flotation is in the seats and without it, that boat is going to the bottom in the event of a swamping capsize. I'm still amazed that he just got rid of it.

As for flotation in the bilge - I have a DS 1 so I'm not real familiar with how the bilge works - but it does seem like a lot of people have occasional problems with drainage and water getting stuck in the bilge - wouldn't adding flotation just exacerbate this issue? Could it be possible to relocate the drain to an above the bilge location and then simply fill the entire bilge with foam? It would be like a DS1 with flotation below deck.

[whitejw1967]

John,

I am of the same belief re putting foam noodles in the bilge area. Seems to me the more buoyant the boat is (even on her side) the easier it would be to right (and it would obviously displace water in the bilge).

I have a 6" access port in my cuddy floor about seven or eight inches in front of the CB trunk. I had to cut it because I had to do glass work there to repair a crack. So I've been using that to put noodles in the bow (as you know, there is a large open space between the cuddy floor and the keel of the boat). I have eighteen noodles in so far and will stuff more in the aft section this afternoon (like you, I think I'll cut some down to cram them in). Taking her out tomorrow so we'll see how it all goes.

The foam in the mast was a major headache!

One big question for you: What do you think of a 'controlled' capsize? A good friend who is also a very experienced sailor, suggested that we might try it (with his motorized launch nearby and SeaTow at the ready) to see what it would take to right her (and how she handles) in such situations so that I'll know what to do when single-handed sailing. This is, of course, once our waters reach the 80s! Your thoughts?


Cheers and happy sailing!

John

[Moose]

So I can see adding noodles or foam to something to add buoyancy in some cases. But I don’t understand how adding foam to the inside of your already sealed hull would increase buoyancy or floatation. I can see if you added foam to take up space that could be filled with water in a capsize (I.e. the open cuddy) do displace water. In the DSII the hull should be air-tight so if you get swamped or capsize the hull will stay full of air (that we all know floats(better than foam)) and not fill with water so adding foam (much more dense than air) will really only add weight and put you further down in the drink.

If you had a compartment that was going to fill with water I would say add foam, but adding foam to the sealed off hull won’t really do anything but hurt you.

[jeadstx]

whitejw1967,

I think a test capsize would be good. I will be sailing my DS2 in the Texas 200 in June (currently 2 DS2's are registered) and it was suggested to do a test capsize to see how the boat would respond. I wish I could say that my capsize was intentional, but I can't. I made a stupid mistake, not really sure how I did it. Got twisted arounds somehow when changing sides during a tack and found myself as far in the stern as I could be and facing the stern, least ways that's the last thing I remember as the boat started to go over. I could release the main sheet. The 3 things I remember most where looking at the water and saying "aw sh__", the popping to the surface and thinking "how embarrising", then thinking "hey, the PFD works". The boat stayed high on it's side. All that said, knowing what your boat will do in a controlled situation would be beneficial. I would suggest doing your test with stuff in the boat (that's alright to get wet) to simulate the kinds of things you might have with you when your sailing. A controlled test capsize with an empty boat may not behave the same as when the boat is loaded with stuff in the cuddy (coolers, anchor, etc.). The weight shifts of stuff will change the dynamics of righting the boat. I had some problems because I had some heavy items on the side that went into the water, probably contributed to the capsize and my problems in righting the boat. Once I was close enough to shore and was able to stand on the bottom, the boat was easily righted.

Good luck, John

[jeadstx]

moose,

Ideally the hull is watertight, but if you have some water get in thru the centerboard bolt or something like a damaged inspection port (as in my case), or hull damage if you hit something, then the flotation is an advantage. Centerboard bolts will eventually leak in most cases at some point or another. If there was no chance of water getting into the water tight hull area, there would be no reason to have a drain plug on the stern.

John

[Moose]

so as I said if your hull is watertight adding foam is to no advantage. A little water leaking through your C.B. bolt is negligible unless you normally let your bilge fill completely before draining it then foam would help displace that water. A broken inspection port or hole in the hull is another story. if your going to be out in dangerous conditions alone for an extended amount of time it would be worth it of you got into some type of accident. For your average Joe who's day sailing and not in storm conditions I don't really see how its effective for anything more than piece of mind. if you capsize and can right within a fair amount of time before taking on several liters of water into the hull. You should probably be more concerned with sealing off the cuddy and holding your gear to the cuddy floor to keep your C.O.G. as low as possible to help you right in case of capsize.

I'm not really looking to argue a point. I'm just giving my input based on my experience on an R.O.V. design team. under normal circumstances I dont see the need for extra "flotation". Look for example at the DSI's hull and the open volume vs. the volume set aside for definite displacement and compare that to the DSII..

Again. just my opinion, if adding foam gives you piece of mind, noodle away or get some lighter two part foam from Jamestown and have at it.

[whitejw1967]

I am planning on adding a cuddy door of some type this summer, preferably hinged so that I can get to stuff in the cuddy while under sail. I concur that the biggest problem with a capsize is probably water flooding into the cockpit. I have added a system of velcro straps that secure plastic bins to the floor and that secure the anchor to the floor as well to keep them nestled in place in case of a catastrophic event.

With the flotation, I think Moose has a good point. That said, I'm not sure at all how good the flotation in the original tanks is after 37 years in southeastern U.S. coastal conditions. I suppose there's no real 'right' answer out there--it depends upon a lot of conditions.

John (whitejw1967)

[ctenidae]

My wife just got 57 noodles, in the back of the car. Ought to help.