77-DS2 Crack in gelcoat near waterline

[dbk0630]

Hi group,

I'm a new and happy owner of a 1977 Daysailer II... and have already benefited from the past and recent discussions on your site. I attached a link with some pictures from when I got her... she had been sitting out in the weather uncovered at a storage yard for about 4 years... and is quite a mess... but everything is intact... and barring any centerboard issues, seems like she should be fine with a good cleaning and new lines. The sails were stored indoors are in great shape. The only major concern I have is a crack in the gel coat on the starboard side toward the rear. I don't think it's a fatal problem... but the crack is just above or at the waterline... and about 5" wide and 1/4" deep (as the pic with the inserted putty knife shows). I'd like to get it in the water soon while there is still some season left to enjoy but I need to know what if anything I should do about the crack.

My specific question is could I do nothing about the crack for now... with no serious consequences (and do a proper fix it this winter); or do I need to do something about it before I get it into the water... and, if so, can I get away with a quick fix for now (and do a more better fix during the winter) OR do I need to fix it correctly now (and if so, how long is that likely to take, what wd be best to use, etc., etc.).

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbk0630/77DS2?feat=directlink


A friend suggested that I do a quick fix using "Splash Zone" and get her in the water now... and repair it properly later. He described "Splash Zone" as a two-part epoxy that you mix and apply... even if the crack is under water.

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=79357F

TIA...

[GreenLake]

I think your best bet would be to do the structural part of a proper repair now, and delay the surface treatment if you don't want to postpone sailing.

Repairing a crack like this doesn't need to take a long time.

First, you need to thoroughly check around the crack for other damage. Is this a result of an earlier impact? Are there concentric cracks in the gelcoat around it? Does the crack go all the way through, or is the laminate around it damaged, that is, does it give when you apply pressure?

There are two steps to a repair.

1. Removal of damaged gelcoat/laminate
2. Replacement with new gelcoat/laminate

At 1/4" deep, this goes beyond the gelcoat and into the laminate. If it was just a scratch you would grind out the crack into a V so it can be filled. If instead an area of laminate is cracked around it (impact) then you'd need to grind out a wider area (and make it shallow).

If you are just filling a crack, I would tend to use a polyester filler, but one that is reinforced with chopped fiberglass. 3M high strength marine filler would fit the bill. The advantage of using that is that it cures much faster than epoxy and will allow you later to rebuild the gelcoat on top.

If there's a wider area of damage, you'll need to rebuild the laminate, but that's something that works best in warm weather (hence waiting for winter isn't necessarily the best, unless you have a well-heated garage). It also doesn't take all that much time - most of the time on these repairs is spent on getting the surface to match.

The other day, I was sanding away at what looked like failing paint on top of my gelcoat, when I found a soft spot below the waterline. It turned out that a previous owner had repaired a quarter sized hole in the hull with some flexible material (caulk?). I ground the edges of the hole to a 1:12 bevel and used small patches of cloth and mat and cloth again with laminating epoxy to rebuild the laminate. The whole thing took about half an hour (but I had all the supplies and tools ready). That's the reason why I don't believe in temporary repairs.

The one exception is if you find you need to remove so much damaged laminate that there's a big hole that goes all the way through, especially, if it you can't get at the inside of the hull. That kind of situation is more fiddly and you'll probably spend a weekend to set it up.

Epoxy needs to be covered for UV protection - that's something that can wait until the end of the sailing season, esp. if the repair isn't in full sunlight the entire time. Otherwise, a bit of cheap spray paint gives a temporary cover.

[Peterw11]

If it were me, I'd just throw it in the water and enjoy the rest of the summer. Even if it leaks a bit, it's not gonna be all that much, and if it leaks more than you're able to handle, then pull her out and address it.

I doubt it's much of a structural problem, unless the crack goes all the way through the glass.

Summer is waning, (dammit!). Enjoy what's left.

[kkearns]

It appears from the photo that the crack is well above the waterline, but it may indeed be at or near the water when the boat is strongly heeled to starboard. I doubt that much harm would come from sailing the remainder of the summer, but Greenlake offers really useful suggestions for when you do get around to the repair. It looks like a rather nasty crack to me and it appears that this hull has been repaired in other spots nearby. Same incident?

One additional suggestion for the winter ... take a look at the spacing between the bunks on your trailer. It is difficult to judge from the photo, but seems to me that the trailer bunks might be too close to each other. This can cause stress cracks in the hull when trailering, which happened to me. But in my case the crack appeared much lower (actually beneath the water line). Even if that is not the cause of your crack, check to make sure that your trailer bunks rest just beneath and parallel to the inner edge of the seats. I learned this lesson the hard way with my '65 DS I.

Kevin

[kkearns]

I just looked at the photo again, and it appears that the dark spot near just aft of the crack is not a repair but rather a mark from the strap that holds the boat to the trailer. If the previous owner had the boat sitting outdoors as you say for four years, with that strap on tight and going through repeated wet / dry cycles, it's not out of the question that the pressure of the strap shrinking and expanding could have caused some of the cracking. Just a thought. I always remind myself to loosen the strap before i walk out of the barn in the fall.

Kevin

[K.C. Walker]

Welcome aboard! I'm sure you going to love the boat.

I'm of the same mind as Green Lake, that is, I would do the structural repair right rather than a temporary repair. On the other hand Peter has a good point that it is the end of the season and it doesn't look like a serious structural problem. Though, I think it's one that needs to be addressed.

Maybe a reasonable approach would be to put some good quality clear packing tape over the crack which will seal it for a couple of weeks of sailing. You no doubt will find other things that need to be addressed in the off-season. However, you would get some sailing in and then find out how nice the boat is. That stripe along the boat where the crack is located is not the water line, it's well above.

I totally agree with Kevin regarding addressing the trailer support. It doesn't take much bouncing around on a trailer or having the straps too tight to do significant damage.

KC

[jeadstx]

Since your boat is a DS2, if you need to get on the inside of the hull for the repair, you will probably need to install an inspection port to get at it.

John

[dbk0630]

You can tell that I am a newbie... this being my first sailboat... so feel free to get the suggestions coming.

kkearns is right that the dark mark aft of the crack is from the tiedown strap used to keep the boat to trailer... the strap was super tight when I got her and the clasp on the strap was rusted shut and I had to cut the strap, just to get it off the boat.

I have a strong need to get sailing again while the weather is so good... and will likely go the tape route for now so that I can get more familiar with the boat and see if there are any other issues with the hull. I will use the suggestions offered by greenlake... and try to tap the expertise of the sailing club (i.e., the Lafayette Sailing Club on Lake Freeman, IN) I joined to get help installing the inspection port and getting it repaired right.

I will also readjust the trailer bunks... from the suggestion offered by kkearns, they both cd/sd be moved toward the center a bit.

Yesterday I was able to get all the old nasty lines off the boat and sweep and vacuum out the accumulated crud (it was kept next to an old truck that was covered in a blue woven tarp that was broken/disentegrated in places... and pieces/strands from the tarp that were all over the boat). I then gave her a much needed bath with some boat soap my neighbor gave me... and found that using a 3m scotchbrite pad and a lot of elbow grease, that I was able to get the dried-on stuff (algae I think) off the cuddy... but it was slow going... and I only got about 10% of the way I need to go. I was wondering if anything would cut the algae better... i.e., would a bleach mixture help... and at what ratio; and wd help and be ok to use a pressure washer (i.e., low pressure one) to help clean it off? Any other do's/dont's about cleaning it up without doing any damage would be appreciated.

I added some before and after pictures to the original album... also available thru the link below... to show my progress.

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbk0630/77DS2?feat=directlink

One other question I have is that I'd like to replace the line (ropes) and bungee for the cb control... shown in the pix too. It seems like the line for the down control needs about 12-15' of line... I'd like to know if that is correct (and what the width sd be) and what length is needed for the piece of line for the up control (I currently can't see/measure that line coz the boat is still on the trailer). And what to use to replace the bungee.

Thx!

[Peterw11]

I've used a pressure washer on mine the past two springs (since I bought it) to good effect.

Some of that mold and algae accumulation can be a real pain to remove by conventional methods, and the PW is the only thing that works. I never bothered with adding bleach to the mix (3:1 if you must) as the power of the spray seems to do all the work and the nature of pressure washing means the solution is not going to be sitting on the surface long enough to do any good, anyway. Especially on the hull surfaces.

Vary the angle of attack according to need. If the gelcoat is in halfway decent shape, you shouldn't have a problem.

[GreenLake]

In my experience, thin slimy films/growth often respond better to scrubbing than to pressure washing alone, and even better to a combination of both. My preferred sequence: go over with the pressure washer once; then scrub stuff that's persistent; then finish it off.

If I spend a lot of time in one spot at highest intensity with the pressure washer, that's the sign to me that a bit of scrubbing is more time-effective in that location.

If you have painted hull/deck/seats/rubrail then at some threshold of power the PW will take off the paint. Esp. in places where it's not clinging well to begin with.

[K.C. Walker]

Well, because you are already going at it with a Scotch Bright I will admit to my scrubbing method for really bad looking decks. If you don't mind a matte finish using Ajax cleanser with bleach and a heavy scrub brush can work pretty well. I have also used Clorox straight and that will take that stuff off pretty quick but use gloves and stay up wind. I don't have a pressure washer so I can't compare.

KC

[GreenLake]

Scrubbing sponges come in different degrees of "scratchiness". I like to use the "non-scratch" versions. They are usually effective enough.

If your gelcoat is older / has been neglected, then it might be time to use a rubbing compound to get the outer oxidized layer off and restore the shine.

3M makes a fiberglass restorer with wax which does some polishing and leaves a wax. Works fine on the hull, and is a one step process. You don't want wax on deck or seats, so alternatively you could use their rubbing compound followed by something they call Finesse II which is for really fine polishing. (Besides my DS I use these on abused CDs and DVDs with good effect )