Track Stop For Boom

[itguy1010]

This might be a dumb question but...

When I prep the boat at the ramp before launching I like to flake the main over the boom and toss a couple of bungees around it to hold it in place for hoisting after leaving the dock. Since the main isn't raised nothing is holding the boom gooseneck in the mast track. Even with a topping lift it sometimes likes to slide down and out of the track opening.

My thought was to try and use one of these track stops to keep the boom in place until it has some halyard tension. Is this a bad idea? I'm thinking it might be possible to over tighten it and deform the track which would be bad. My guess is that these are made to just keep sail slugs in the track and the weight of the boom with main could be too much.

Here's the item I'm looking at:

Slide Stop.jpg (12.86 KiB) Viewed 16921 times

[GreenLake]

I'm having trouble following your description, because when I read it, it sounds like your configuration is upside down from mine.

My mast has a slot at the back, which has a wider opening to insert the gooseneck fitting. After its inserted, the gooseneck will slide down and rest on a stop that is the functional equivalent of what you show in your picture, but is actually a cleat.

Now in your photo in this post (http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28216#p28216) I can see the same slot and cleat (and I assume you have the same gap through which you feed the gooseneck.

Gravity will hold my boom in place, because with the gooseneck all the way down at the stop, it cannot escape.

I never bother with a topping lift nor with bungees around the main, but our launch area is next to a building and that keeps the wind from grabbing the main, which I simply rest loosely on a seat. I do usually start the head of the sail and pull it about a foot into the slot on the mast, held there by the halyard.

When I hoist the sail after the launch, I feed it through the gap into the slot; the gap being now above the gooseneck.. As the sail pulls taut, the gooseneck rises, but not up to the gap in the slot. I then pull the boom down to flatten the sail and tie it off on the cleat (which is the same as the stop). At no point in this exercise can the boom unship from the mast.

Did you change anything from that setup?

[itguy1010]

Hi, Greenlake...

No, nothing has changed. Now I'm confused (that's obvious, huh). With the cold weather still hanging around I've been doing a lot of thinking about the topping lift system that I'm about to add. Just a micro cheek block at the masthead and some 3/16" dyneema with a blake's hitch and carabiner for the end of the boom. The other end of the topping lift line will just terminate at the bail on the mast. The blake's hitch will allow me to easily adjust the boom height or shorten the TL line for attachment to the mast base when making way under sail. Anyway, we go to lots of different lakes throughout the season and some of them have a long channel or canal before we get to the lake. My wife and I are pretty big adults and any extra cockpit room (and especially headroom) is a bonus. So, the topping lift will keep the semi-furled main and boom up out of the way and I guess I was thinking that a slide stop that kept the boom at its highest position might be helpful. Also, now that I have new D&R halyards I suspect I'll be able to get the head of the main a few inches higher since the old halyard and masthead sheaves were quite buggered up. I thought that if I set the slide stop just a little below my tightest downhaul trim point then I'd also have a visual reference that all is well and squared away when I raise the main. I'm planning on trying to singlehand my boat this season so I'm thinking about little things that will make that process a little easier/simpler.

But, yes. We have the same setup on the mast. I was pretty confused in my mental visualization of how the gooseneck is rigged. Its been a long winter and cold, snowy spring and I have a bad case of acute cabin fever. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[GreenLake]

The kind of mast channel you have will not be deformed with the kind of stop you showed me, esp. if it's finger-tight.

Get you on motoring out to the lake and then raising sails there. Never a scenario here. The one place I launch from most has a 300-500' channel, but I tend to sail that. It's just wide enough (50'+) that I can short tack. In dying winds this can be challenging, but fun.

I find that keeping the boom at its standard height (resting on the existing stop) clears even tall crew comfortably.

For any topping lift on a small boat like a DS (where you can manually support the boom while adjusting it) I find the use of a block on the mast unnecessary overkill, and the resulting "return" line down the mast totally unnecessary. If you want convenience, put a block on the end of the boom and a cleat a few inches in from the end. (Further in, if you ever plan on lifting your boom to very steep angles).

With a Blake's hitch (and without planning to lift your boom to crazy angles) there's no need for any hardware beyond an eyestrap near the mast top. I would make sure that you use a line that has enough friction. For example, while 2mm or 3mm AmSteel is strong enough to hold much of your boat, let alone the boom, it's very slippery.

You may have better luck with FSE Robline Dinghy Control line. See this post http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25851#p25851 from my thread Rope for various lines. These lines are much easier to handle at small diameters.

[GreenLake]

One of the reasons why I have not installed a topping lift so far is that, for the few occasions where I want to keep the boom level with the sail down, I've simply used the main halyard. The scenario comes up regularly, if infrequently, when I sail to some place I can dock for a few hours. I would lower the sail, move the halyard to the end of the boom, and then flake the sail over the boom and secure. (Usually with a short rope, as shown in this picture, rather than with bungees).

[itguy1010]

I find that keeping the boom at its standard height (resting on the existing stop) clears even tall crew comfortably.

For any topping lift on a small boat like a DS (where you can manually support the boom while adjusting it) I find the use of a block on the mast unnecessary overkill, and the resulting "return" line down the mast totally unnecessary. If you want convenience, put a block on the end of the boom and a cleat a few inches in from the end. (Further in, if you ever plan on lifting your boom to very steep angles).

With a Blake's hitch (and without planning to lift your boom to crazy angles) there's no need for any hardware beyond an eyestrap near the mast top. I would make sure that you use a line that has enough friction. For example, while 2mm or 3mm AmSteel is strong enough to hold much of your boat, let alone the boom, it's very slippery.

Thanks for the info Greenlake. You say "keeping the boom at its standard height (resting on the existing stop)" but when my boom is resting at the bottom of the track opening (existing stop?) it is quite a bit lower than where it would be with the main raised to the masthead. It really isnt that big a deal. I had the boat out last Saturday to try out my new motor, jib downhaul and topping lift. Everything worked well. I ended up using 3/16" sta-set and the blake's hitch was fine. I decided I liked the idea of having a micro block at the masthead for the topping lift.

Anyway, it was very light air and practiced wing on wing on some runs and flew the chute on others. Having the jib downhaul was great for saving me trips to the fore deck.

Eric

[GreenLake]

You may need to pull the boom down after you have raised your sail and then secure it with a short line so it doesn't "float" up the mast. That's why the "stop" is also a cleat.

[TIM WEBB]

Alternatively, you could establish the uppermost extent of the head of the sail in the track/halyard in the masthead sheave, cleat it off there, then pull the boom down as far as it will go, and set the gooseneck stop an inch or two below that point. That way, you can just cleat off the gooseneck before raising sail, and know that you have good luff tension with the boom at the optimum height.

[GreenLake]

I like gravity assist when I can get it. When I raise the sail, all I need to overcome is the friction, the weight of the sail and the weight of the boom. Raise it all the way to the top and cleat the halyard. Then I lean into the boom and elbow it down. All the way to the stop. And cleat it off. Easy. No need to try to use the halyard to set up the tension.

Now, my sail is cut to fill the entire mast slot from the boom to the top. Had to remove the shackle and go back to tying the halyard with a knot, because the shackle cost me 2". If your sail is cut shorter, you can use a bit of tape on the mast mark the position to which the boom should rise (before you bring it down to add tension). Then, instead of hoisting the sail all the way, just hoist until the boom hits the mark, and pull it down from there to the stop.

Incidentally, make sure your halyards are non-stretch (or nearly so). You don't want a gust to stretch the halyard, lower the sail (make it fuller) and inadvertently power it up. There's a reason the original halyards on the DS were wire (with a rope tail for handling). Not suggesting you should go back to wire, but there are a number of alternatives out there that are very low stretch.

Example: FSE Robline Dinghy Control line. The 4mm (that's less than 3/16") is strong enough to lift your boat, fully rigged, crewed - and with trailer attached. Still nice and grippy, thanks to the cover, and easy to cleat (can't be spliced, so you'll need to use a knot).

I have it on another dinghy I own as a main halyard, and use it on the DS for outhaul and reef lines (my halyards are amsteel, which is easy to splice, but needs a tail from a more grippy material spliced to it, otherwise it's to slippery).

[TIM WEBB]

(Almost) the same number of steps, just in a different order. But why expend the energy to hoist the boom with the main if you are just going to turn around and pull the gooseneck back down to the stop and cleat it?

With the swivel block/cleats, I've never had a problem getting good halyard/luff tension on jib or main, and I can do both while seated in the cockpit.

Agreed on low-stretch halyards, but I've never had a "gust stretch" plain old Sta-set or the like.

[DigitalMechanic]

itguy,

My setup for the topping lift is near identical. I have the stopper you originally posted as well. The wheel "tightener" thing on it was gone on it when I got the boat, but Rudy at D&R has replacements for a few bucks I would get one from him if you have not already, it does help. http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DR20%2D90

What I did is...
On the trailer, drop the stopper in the lower part of the mast beneath the wide opening for the Main sail. Hoist the main all the way up as far as it will go. Pull the Cunningham down as far as it will go. Now you have your sail pretty much stretched as much as possible. It is essentially filling as much of the mast track as it can. Now bring the stopper up about an inch or so below where boom is, and tighten it up good... otherwise it will get itself loose again from the vibration of the trailer when you travel which will mean either you have to reset, or at worst replace (if it falls off when on the road). At this point, I have not ever touched the thing again. That position just works for me. I am 6ft tall, and on my boat I think that a person a few inches taller would still be fine with the height of the boom, sitting in the front of the cockpit of the boat.

On the topping lift... The PO of my boat mounted a relatively large block for the application halfway between the shroud tangs and the top of the mast (actually this was probably for a spinnaker??, but he turned it into a topping lift). Doesn't really work that well, and have traditionally bastardized it in favor of just dropping the boom and sail in the boat. About a week or so ago, I got a micro swivel block and put it on an eyestrap (spare parts) at the top of the mast. It uses a carabiner (from the old TL) attached to some 50ft FSE Robline 3/16 that I got on sale, and ties off on a cleat on the side of the lower part of the mast. The system did not make sense to change because it was mostly already there, just needed the block to be at the top of the mast. With that said, again on the trailer, with the main sail up... slack it off so the main is not impeded from filling with wind. Then tie it off. When I drop the main sail, the boom drops a few inches, but there is still pretty good head room without having to adjust anything. However, if you need to adjust, with your setup you can crank the boom up if you like. You will just have to re-adjust the TL slack again next time you raise the main.

And just for old times sake, if I want to drop the boom into the cockpit, I went ahead and let it all the way down before cutting off the extra TL line so that it would still be able to tie off and not flapping around if I wanted the boom was all the way down.

As a bonus... well maybe... You mentioned making your jib downhaul. This was another recent project of mine that I screwed up... but made a discovery in the process. Well, after talking to Tim Webb, I know I am not the first one to discover it, lol. So, I put a flip-flop micro block up by the stem head and a horn cleat by the chainplates (once again courtesy of my good friend Tim's advice), and for whatever reason (maybe beer?) I cut the line for it to short. So, even though I screwed up, I still wanted to play around with the new jib downhaul, so I was looking for a place to tie the aft end of it off. Well, apparently I cut it just short enough to come back to the mast. I put a piece of the line I trimmed away from the TL around the mast just above the horn cleat (for Cunningham) that clears all the stuff my jib sheet like to get snagged on. Well, with that in place, the jib sheet crosses every time due to the lift that occurs, bringing the jib sheet up and over all the "snagables". The only downfall is that there is a trip hazard up on the foredeck, but with the way the boat is rigged now, I should not have to go up there unless setting up or tearing down the boat.

[GreenLake]

(Almost) the same number of steps, just in a different order....With the swivel block/cleats,... and I can do both while seated in the cockpit.

I use the original horn cleats at the mast. I may add a way to tension the jib halyard with a purchase (a setup I have on another boat). However, I haven't run into situations where I've wanted to make changes in halyard tension while underway. So the need to route these into the cockpit has always escaped me.

Therefore, I'm standing in the front of the cockpit when I raise sails, and I'm pulling down, not out. That may influence the way I approach the whole operation.

Now, why swivel blocks?

Agreed on low-stretch halyards, but I've never had a "gust stretch" plain old Sta-set or the like.

Sure about that? Would you be able to tell? I know that with my earlier halyards, I could feel a definite "give" when I pulled on them. And that was with diameters much larger than I have now. I see less windage and have less weight aloft with the new ones.

Now, I readily admit, a big part of the motivation was the challenge of making new halyards, splicing Amsteel and Amsteel with double braid. A fun winter project.

[TIM WEBB]

...Well, after talking to Tim Webb, I know I am not the first one to discover it, lol. So, I put a flip-flop micro block up by the stem head and a horn cleat by the chainplates (once again courtesy of my good friend Tim's advice), and for whatever reason (maybe beer?) I cut the line for it to short. So, even though I screwed up, I still wanted to play around with the new jib downhaul, so I was looking for a place to tie the aft end of it off. Well, apparently I cut it just short enough to come back to the mast. I put a piece of the line I trimmed away from the TL around the mast just above the horn cleat (for Cunningham) that clears all the stuff my jib sheet like to get snagged on. Well, with that in place, the jib sheet crosses every time due to the lift that occurs, bringing the jib sheet up and over all the "snagables". The only downfall is that there is a trip hazard up on the foredeck, but with the way the boat is rigged now, I should not have to go up there unless setting up or tearing down the boat.

Thanks for the shout out DM, but I'm afraid I can't take credit for the idea. I stole it from a previous guy, who prolly stole it from somebody before him, etc etc etc.

[DigitalMechanic]

Thanks for the shout out DM, but I'm afraid I can't take credit for the idea. I stole it from a previous guy, who prolly stole it from somebody before him, etc etc etc.

Well, you are the last guy that thought of it, before I thought that I thought of it... So, because you thought of it last, I am giving you the credit on this one, lol.

[itguy1010]

itguy,

On the topping lift... The PO of my boat mounted a relatively large block for the application halfway between the shroud tangs and the top of the mast (actually this was probably for a spinnaker??, but he turned it into a topping lift). Doesn't really work that well, and have traditionally bastardized it in favor of just dropping the boom and sail in the boat. About a week or so ago, I got a micro swivel block and put it on an eyestrap (spare parts) at the top of the mast. It uses a carabiner (from the old TL) attached to some 50ft FSE Robline 3/16 that I got on sale, and ties off on a cleat on the side of the lower part of the mast. The system did not make sense to change because it was mostly already there, just needed the block to be at the top of the mast. With that said, again on the trailer, with the main sail up... slack it off so the main is not impeded from filling with wind. Then tie it off. When I drop the main sail, the boom drops a few inches, but there is still pretty good head room without having to adjust anything. However, if you need to adjust, with your setup you can crank the boom up if you like. You will just have to re-adjust the TL slack again next time you raise the main.

Thanks for the information on the track stop. I think I'm going to give it a try. The wife and I are "trailer sailors" so I'm always trying to optimize my public ramp setup procedure. Raising the main at the ramp just seems like an unnecessary step and a little sketchy on those fresh breeze days. I will, however, take a nice calm day in the driveway at home to find the normal lowest boom height with the main fully raised and downhauled. Then, I'll just place an indelible mark on the track for reference.

My topping lift system is pretty much exactly how I want it. A tiny Harken micro cheek block (no eyestrap on the mast intentionally) just below the mast head on the opposite side from my Windex mount and 50' of 3/16" Sta-Set. At the end of the TL that connects to the end of the boom is a blake's hitch with a small carabiner. At the other end I have a bowline with a snap eye. The blake's hitch allows a wide range of length adjustment. So much so that I can disconnect the carabiner from the boom, hook it to the snap eye and run a small flag, banner or even a white 360 deg. LED light up the mast if I want. Also, I don't like having the TL connected to the boom when under sail. I just disco it and hook it to the bail on my mast and its ready to go in a moment if I drop the main.

What really drove me to add the TL was that the spinnaker halyard block that you referenced is something that I use fairly often for the spinnaker. I've gotten in the habit of rigging the chute in its turtle bag to the forestay and all associated guy's, sheets etc before we hit the water. So, using the chute halyard as a temp TL just ceased to be an option for me.