this topic came up in the previous thread -ie: have an early DS1, #766 and she has no thwarts. and no indentations for them in the molded in seats. I see in fotos on this forum that lots of the boats have them and it appears that they sit in small purpose designed depressions made to accept them....Question is...do I need them, are they useful or a nuisance? can I add them? (of course, I can, but would it be advantageous?)...any comments out there?
thomas
thwarted?
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by Phill » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:22 pm
Hi Thomas,
The early DS's (3 digit) had differnt side and stern sealed floatation areas. and the seats were just wooden benches. However, the benches were originally shaped in an 'L' shape that had a short leg that tied into the Centerboard trunk, that served the same purpose of stabilizing the trunk from side to side forces when we sail. If your DS has a verticle wall under the cockpit edge and a sealed bulkhead accoss the stern, then you have the origianl configuration.
If you contact 'Swiftsail' on this forum, he may have pictues of his boat that has this configuration.
Eithter way, the thwart braces are necessay for CB trunk stability. Think about standing on the CB tip and only having the bottom edge of the trunk supporting all your weight. And, it takes two to right a capsized DS. Sailing can put even more stress on the trunk. Also for racing, the thwart braces are specifically required to match the original design.
phill
The early DS's (3 digit) had differnt side and stern sealed floatation areas. and the seats were just wooden benches. However, the benches were originally shaped in an 'L' shape that had a short leg that tied into the Centerboard trunk, that served the same purpose of stabilizing the trunk from side to side forces when we sail. If your DS has a verticle wall under the cockpit edge and a sealed bulkhead accoss the stern, then you have the origianl configuration.
If you contact 'Swiftsail' on this forum, he may have pictues of his boat that has this configuration.
Eithter way, the thwart braces are necessay for CB trunk stability. Think about standing on the CB tip and only having the bottom edge of the trunk supporting all your weight. And, it takes two to right a capsized DS. Sailing can put even more stress on the trunk. Also for racing, the thwart braces are specifically required to match the original design.
phill
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by thomas » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:28 pm
phill- thanks for the reply;
actually, phill, my boat is 3 digit,[ hull # in the 4000. range but sail #, meaning "daysailer" # (if I've got the numbering system correct) , #766.]
she doesn't have wooden seats, she has molded glass seats, and no thwarts, as I said earlier. I appreicate your comments vis-a-vis cb stability, but if this is true what was the configuration? I believe my boat is among the first with fiberglass molded in seating, following the boats with the wood benches and before the advent of molded in thwart supports in the seats. can anyone corroborate this? anyway, all I want to know is how important are the missing thwarts and how were they configured on boats of this period. anybody know?
actually, phill, my boat is 3 digit,[ hull # in the 4000. range but sail #, meaning "daysailer" # (if I've got the numbering system correct) , #766.]
she doesn't have wooden seats, she has molded glass seats, and no thwarts, as I said earlier. I appreicate your comments vis-a-vis cb stability, but if this is true what was the configuration? I believe my boat is among the first with fiberglass molded in seating, following the boats with the wood benches and before the advent of molded in thwart supports in the seats. can anyone corroborate this? anyway, all I want to know is how important are the missing thwarts and how were they configured on boats of this period. anybody know?
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by Bob Damon » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:50 am
There were a series of boats built and delivered without thwart seats. No one seems to know why. From a class measurement standpoint, if the boat was delivered without thwarts, they are not required. If however they were delivered with thwarts, they are required to be kept. Either way they provide significant stability to the cb trunk and help with the stiffening of the hull. If it were me, I would install some. Let me know of any questions on this matter.
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by thomas » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:46 pm
Bob-can't say whether or not the boat was delivered with or without thwarts-unless the lack of a (depression?) for them is an indication. there does appear to be a small support on the cb case where the thwarts may have landed. Any advice you'd care to send my way concerning both dimensions and installation would be helpful. And greatly appreciated.
thomas
thomas
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by MarcCram » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:18 pm
thomas-
I took the day off to spend some more time on the boat, i'll take pictures with all measurements (height of cb braces, depth, width...ect). They might help in your quest.
edited the post... here are some pictures... after deciding not to put her i the water this year half restored, we (the wife and I) are going to bring her back to bristol condition. Hence the nasty looking pictures.
[thumb=481] [thumb=482] [thumb=483]
[thumb=484] [thumb=485] [thumb=486]
[thumb=487] [thumb=488]
marc
I took the day off to spend some more time on the boat, i'll take pictures with all measurements (height of cb braces, depth, width...ect). They might help in your quest.
edited the post... here are some pictures... after deciding not to put her i the water this year half restored, we (the wife and I) are going to bring her back to bristol condition. Hence the nasty looking pictures.
[thumb=481] [thumb=482] [thumb=483]
[thumb=484] [thumb=485] [thumb=486]
[thumb=487] [thumb=488]
marc
Last edited by MarcCram on Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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by thomas » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:38 am
marc, thanks for taking the time to post those photo's. having those dimensions will be a great help, but I'm not sure, exactly, how I'll attach the braces to the CB house. Supose I'll just do a lap joint at the seat as there's no built in mount. Anyone have idea's?
thomas
thomas
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by MarcCram » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:31 pm
thomas,
it looks as if the braces were pre-made and simply glassed to the centerboard trunk, perhaps you could do the same on the seat side. On my list of things to do is replace the mahogany, but when I removed the thwarts they were in kinda tight. I'm not sure if the cause was the old swelling boards or not. Do you have pictures of your boat?
marc
it looks as if the braces were pre-made and simply glassed to the centerboard trunk, perhaps you could do the same on the seat side. On my list of things to do is replace the mahogany, but when I removed the thwarts they were in kinda tight. I'm not sure if the cause was the old swelling boards or not. Do you have pictures of your boat?
marc
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by calden » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:34 pm
If I were to put in braces for thwarts, I'd screw in a couple of pieces of steel, same size as the glass braces, then glass them over. Then I'd glass over the steel so it wouldn't rust. On the seat side I'd put quarter-inch material of some type behind it and through-bolt it. Those glass braces always looked suspect to me.
Or you could make hanging cleats out of 3/4" teak or mahogany, maybe make them as wide as the thwarts and 4-5" deep. If you through-bolted them onto the seats directly beneath the thwarts, and on the cb trunk glued with 5200 and screwed in to the depth of the fiberglass you'd have a great support to attach thwarts to.
Carlos
Or you could make hanging cleats out of 3/4" teak or mahogany, maybe make them as wide as the thwarts and 4-5" deep. If you through-bolted them onto the seats directly beneath the thwarts, and on the cb trunk glued with 5200 and screwed in to the depth of the fiberglass you'd have a great support to attach thwarts to.
Carlos
DS I #1653
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