New Boom Vang Install

[Woden]

I put a vang on my day sailor this year. Got it at D&S. When I jibe with it cranked down I get a big klunk as the slop in the gooseneck is shifted from port to starboard and vice versa. My set up is the same as is seen in Rogers book.

The vang pulls back as well as down. It is a triangle, two vectors.

The klunk is loud enough that it concerns me.

Has this happened to any other DSII sailors with your vang arrangement?

Pete

[calden]

Pete:

For those of us who don't have Roger's book in front of us (mine is buried somewhere amidst sailing magazines...) describe exactly where your vang is attached.

First thought is that maybe the downhaul needs to be tighter. If the sail tack were too high it would make that corner of the sail loose and floppy when the vang is hardened. (I think.)

Carlos

[Woden]

Carlos,
I sent you a picture. I'd post one here but do not know how. In the picture the down haul is not attached.The luf is tensioned using a boom stop. I was just trying it. Didn't like it.

I think it is because the vang hits the main or jib halyard as the boom rotates from side to side. I am going to add two turning blocks to get the halyards out of the way of the vang.

If you know how to post the picture I sent you it might help the other people reading this post to understand what I am talking about.

Pete

[calden]

Pete:

Peter:

Yeah, it looks like the tack corner of the sail is really loose. You need to tighten things up. Harden the downhaul. This will pull the foot of the sail down snug. It also looks like the OUTHAUL needs to be pulled out. That's the line which pulls the foot of the sail back on the boom. It also looks like maybe the main needs to go up the mast some more if you can't get that bag out by pulling the downhaul.

You want the sail to be a nice, smooth airfoil shape, and right now there is lots of bagginess at the intersection of the boom and mast, which would make the gooseneck rattle like hell when moving around.

I can see where the vang bumps into the halyards, and that too may be contributing to your problem, but the sail surely needs shaping a lot more.

To post pictures, you can either insert an http link for an image on the internet, or put some pictures in the Photos section of the site. Go to the FAQs to see how:

http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/faq.php

Have fun, nice looking boat.

Carlos

[Woden]

Carlos,

I can pull the hell out of the main sheet halyard, down haul, outhaul. It doesnt matter. I can not get the baggeness out of the corner of that sail. I had it proessionally cleaned and a reef point addd this spring.

Maybe the sail is "blown out". The guy that had the boat before me bought it used somewhere.

New sail: 500.00+

I just bought a new jib @ 300.00+

Thanks for your help Carlos.

Pete

[calden]

Pete:

I'm no expert, but having had two boats now, and two sets of sails on one of them, and having sailed in a friend's J/24, I am suspecting that your problem is either indeed a really blown out sail or something is up with your line control system. Even my original kinda-baggy San Juan 21 1974 mainsail does not have the kind of bagginess that was evident in your picture. My original DS sail was definitely soft and baggy, but it didn't have the pronounced pouch that I see in yours.

Are you sure that you are getting the sail all the way up the mast? Not questioning your previous information, but after looking at that picture again, it's worth double checking. At one point my sail track needed cleaning, but I didn't feel anything sticking until the main was ALMOST all the way up, and then it only had 4" or so to go. Looking from below, it was hard to tell it wasn't up all the way, but the whole sail felt low and the boom hung down. I only discovered it wasn't fully hoisted when a friend pointed out that the headboard wasn't where it ought to be. I cleaned the track and tinkered with the bolt rope: singed it gently with a fireplace lighter and waxed the whole thing with paraffin, and it helped.

The way to clean the track is to get a short section of line that fits a bit snug in the track. Soak the track with Simple Green or some other mild cleaner/solvent and get the rope in there and using a chopstick or other pusher that fits in the slot push it up and down, "scrubbing" the track, then rinse well and dry. Then use Sailkote lubricant in there and use paraffin or beeswax on the boltrope.

Did you have issues with this before getting it cleaned?

If all the mast measurements are accurate and you are really getting the halyards and outhauls snug, then it might be time for a new sail. If this is the case then sailing it will be more enjoyable by a huge factor. I felt like I had a new boat when I sprung for a new mainsail - easier to control, less heeling, quicker to respond to tacking and small adjustments - everything.

Carlos

[Woden]

Carlos,
This is my second year with the boat. I had the same baggyness last year. I questioned the baggyness last year with a very experenced sailor in Canada. His opinion was that if the sail does not have any holes in it, fly it.

In my limited experence, I think this boat is very tender. I sailed in a Wayfairer last year and the boat was much more stable. I questiuoned the baggyness last year out of a quest for stability. I recently installed an inclinometer to measure the angle of heel in relation to wind speed.
If getting some of the baggyness out will help with the stability I'm all for it.

By the way, I realize this is a DaySailor and not a keel boat, but it sure seems tender.

Pete

[calden]

Pete:

A blown-out sail WILL be baggy and catch a lot more air rather than act as an airfoil, especially noticeable in higher winds. It will tend to make the boat heel, and make the boat feel jerky in gusts and puffs.

Like I said, I don't pretend to be an expert, but from experience I can say this is true. I went from an old sail to a new, stiff sail: 5.5 0z. - maybe a bit too stiff - on a Daysailer, and sailing the boat was more comfortable and controllable. Here's a picture of my OLD sail - it's not a great picture to discuss this issue, but you can see the sail shape at the tack, and it looks a lot better than the sail shape in your picture:



At the least this is what it ought to look like. And I replaced that sail.

If you can rule out the halyard and outhaul and downhaul issues I suggested, then go for a new sail. I think you'll feel the difference right away.

Carlos

[Woden]

Carlos,
Wow!! That sail is really flat! Thanks for the info! Time for a new sail.

Thanks Again

Pete

[calden]

Pete:

Found a much better picture of the OLD sail. You should be able to get even an old sail looking at least like this:



You see how it bags from the tell-tale downward? That's not a really good shape - but it's usable. The reason I keep coming back to your sail lines is that it shoudn't be looking at all like yours, even as a blown-out sail.

A couple of other random thoughts.... was your mast ever cut down in size, like for a repair? Or... was this perhaps not the right sized sail?

Carlos

[Roger]

I too suspect the downhaul stop. Perhaps the cleat (which also acts as the lower stop) was repositioned higher at one time. Try lowering it at bit to see if you can get more stretch on the bolt rope. Something is just not right!

For comparison, the headboard should come to within the inche of the sheeve at the top.

[Woden]

Roger,

I do not have/use a down haul stop. I run the main up and pull the halyard tight as I can. Then I grab the down haul which is connected to an eye underneath the goose neck. Wrap it around the down haul cleat and pull as hard as I can. Then cleat it. The goose neck does not bottom out on the tube that the down haul cleat is srewed to in the sail track. Boom is the right height. I cut it for the tabernacle.

I suspect I have a bogus sail. The reason for that is because most Day Sailor main sails take two 40" and two 30" bttens. Mine has two 40" and two 24 inch battens. According to D&R Marine this is strange as they sell the battens.

Does that sound strange to either Roger and/or Carlos?

Pete

[calden]

Don't know about what the batten length says about the sail size, but not having the correct sail could be your problem. Don't think it's just the vang.


Carlos

[Woden]

The sail says DS on it. I'm just going to get a new one and eliminate the whole problem.

IF, I still have baggyness with a new sail...... well lets not go there right now.

Thanks for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You guys are great.

Pete

[calden]

Pete:

Another thing you could do is measure the sail and tell Rudy at D&R and he'll tell you if it's supposed to fit. He'd be a good resource to talk to in any case, especially if you're considering buying a sail from him.

Carlos